In this episode we’re talking about our relationship with technology, and how we can have a healthy-partnership with it, rather than have it dominate us and our lives.
Dr Lori is a Clinical Psychologist who did her research into technology and the impacts on relationships. She is an thought-leader in the field of technology and helps businesses and families manage technology distractions and establish real connections.
- The “Phubbing” phenomenon – being snubbed for devices
- Technology Addiction
- Technology and marriage
- How to know when we’re addicted to our devices
- Minimizing stress coming from technology
- Boundaries and technology – what we need to consider
- Technology and our kids
- How we can use technology during this crazy Covid season
Dr Lori’s new book is Connected & Engaged. You can find that here: https://www.amazon.com/Connected-Engaged-Digital-Distractions-Reconnect/dp/1734117400
To learn more about Dr Lori Whatley: https://drloriwhatley.com/
For a full transcript of this episode please see below.
#137: Dr Lori Whatley: Tech & Our Lives – How to Live More Connected & Engaged.
Kate: Today’s episode is with technology expert and thought leader Dr. Lori Whatley. She is a clinical psychologist and did her research into the impacts of technology on marriage. We talk about some of that in here, and it’s interesting to hear some of her statistics and insights when it comes to how we are using tech in our lives and potentially how we can reconsider that relationship, or at least become a little bit more mindful. We also talk about phubbing. I learned something new. The phubbing phenomenon. How to know when we I getting to that addiction stage without devices. The importance of boundaries and when with thinking about boundaries with technology the things we need to consider. Technology and our kids. Aha I’m a mother. I’m a mother of two small boys. Man, I get this conversation and it’s not easy people trying to parent children in a technology age. Ugh, let alone throwing Covid in there, but we do touch on using technology and this crazy Covid season. Dr Lori I did record this back in probably March or April so it’s been a little while, but she still had some really interesting insights that I think hold today around this unique Covid experience. If you’re anything like me though, did not think we would still be in the midst of needing that, but hey, so it goes, and technology and Covid is definitely a topic worth still considering. Dr Lori’s new book is called Connected and Engaged and you can find that on Amazon or wherever you buy your books. To get a full transcript of this episode you can hate to www.thrive.how/137. Without further ado let me introduce you to talk to Dr. Lori.
Kate [Introduction]: Welcome to Here to Thrive. I’m your host Kate Snowise. This is a podcast for people who are ready to step up and live a happier life. It’s for those of us who are dedicated to understanding ourselves and getting the best that we can out of this thing called life. It’s a mix of psychology and modern spiritual thought, always with a focus on practical advice so that you can take it back and apply it to your own life. I don’t believe we’re here to merely survive, I truly believe we’re here to thrive, so let’s get going.
Kate: Dr Lori thank you for joining us on Here to Thrive today.
Dr Lori: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here and it’s it’s an honor always.
Kate: I’m really looking forward to talking about our relationship with technology. Your clinical psychologist and my understanding is you did research into our relationship with tech as well. What are you seeing in your office?
Dr Lori: Well I would tell that what I saw in my office prior to getting my my Doctorate inspired me to, to do much more research because I realized – Hey I need to address this. I’m having couples come in, I’m having teenagers come in, families come in, that I’m working with and technology keeps coming up, and what am I gonna do with this? And so I was already doing my doctoral work and it was time to decide on what my dissertation would be on and I thought this is something I want to understand better so that I can help my clients find solutions, and so I did my dissertation on the effects of texting on the martial relationship, my committee whittled it down to that, and actually they turned it into a book which is on Amazon. Now it’s a book full of statistics obviously so not really enjoyable to read unless you’re in that academia.
Kate: [Laughing] You’re like not not the easy self-help book.
Dr Lori: No my own mother made it to about page twenty five and said “Hey I love you very much, but this is just not not real interesting” But if you like statistics and all it is. And then I actually wrote a user friendly book which I published last month, Connected and Engaged which is all the same information just in in in a more user friendly way, so that is when I realized that we need to understand better our relationship with technology and, hey technology is here in our lives to stay, and it’s a wonderful thing I mean look you, and I are talking you know, across the world, and it makes things like this possible, so I’m not poo-pooing technology. What I’m saying is let’s learn how it affects us and have a balance of that in our lives.
Kate: So you were drawn to looking at technology, texting and the marital relationship. What are some of the things that you found through your research?
Dr Lori: Well on that subject particularly I learned about phubbing. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of phubbing?
Kate: I haven’t even heard of phubbing. What is phubbing?
Dr Lori: When I say that in the presence of my mother she’s like “what did you say?”
Kate: [Laughing]
Dr Lori: “What was that?” Phubbing is when we are with another person and they are on their phones snubbing us, phubbing us. P h u b b i n g – so maybe maybe I’m talking to you and all of a sudden the phone rings and instead of giving you in our conversation our time together priority I say – “Oh do you mind? I’m gonna answer this real quick.” And I go get get into another conversation with someone else and make that a priority, and that leaves the person that you’re talking to they are a little bit dismissed and so that’s phubbing. Pubbing is maybe if we’re on a date and the person we’re with starts texting someone or they start watching football on their phone or whatever. You know it it’s when we don’t make the person that we’re with the priority and were not present with them. So we’re distracted.
Kate: Wow that soo interesting. Phubbing. I’ve got a new word. I mean I felt snubbed by technology before I doubt there is anyone who’s listening to this that hasn’t felt that technology snub.
Dr Lori: Right. I think we all experience it.
Kate: Your clinical psychologist so what kind of things are you seeing in your patients? Do people self-refer to say “I have a tech addiction” or is it people on the other side saying “technology through others is upsetting me”, or is it all of those things, and everything in between?
Dr Lori: Yeah that’s a great question. I would say that it’s all of the above. I have people who come in Kate, and they say “oh I can’t I can’t sleep at night and I’m feeling a little bit of anxiety during the day, and the next day” and I say “oh well let’s talk about this more.” Now fifteen years ago I might handle that completely differently. Now the first question I ask is “how much are you engaged with screens throughout the day?” because we know, the data is in, we do know that the blue light from screens interrupts our melatonin production which that is chemical in our body that assists us in sleeping and so, it makes us think, well I want to go into the real complicated part of that. Would be quite boring for people.
Kate: [Laughing]
Dr Lori: But let’s just say that we’re not producing the melatonin that we need to be, and so that can cause us not to get good sleep, or the screen itself can cause our brains to be stimulated, overstimulated, and so we don’t move through all of our sleep stages, and at night when we sleep is when anxiety is healed from that day, so if we’re not sleeping then the next day we have morning anxiety and it kind of snowballs. So sometimes. And anxiety is the number one reason people come to see us.
Kate: Got you. So I mean, I’m hearing that that often people are referring for other symptoms, like I’m feeling depressed or anxious, or there’s something not right, when tech could be one of the major sources of that, but they not referring for technology.
Dr Lori: Right! Oh very seldom but most of the time in general what people come to therapists you know the presenting problem is not necessarily a problem.
Kate: I like it. The presenting problem is not necessarily the problem.
Dr Lori: Right and sometimes the presenting, the identified patient, is not really the patient. You know it depends on what what the situation is that they’re in a family system or or a couple, it’s interesting. You know some people go to therapy to learn to deal with the unhealthy people in their lives, so anyway lots of different caveats there, but yeah I think they come and then when we start peeling back the layers, that that is certainly part of the problem. It’s not always all of the problem. Sometimes people do come in and they say “I’m lonely. I sit on my sofa all day. I look at screens. Netflix or I am you know, chatting are on social media or but I don’t have any in person friends and I’m lonely.” So that’s a pretty obvious. They know that their screens are a problem or they come in and they say “I have it an addiction that is tied to online. There are certain things I’m doing online that I’m addicted to and I need help with that.” So that does happen sometimes.
Kate: You do have a couple of statistics. They’re not boring in the new book. And the new book is called Connected and Engaged. One that stuck out to me is that we are spending on average 10 hrs 39 min every single day in front of a screen. I was like are you kidding me? There is ten plus hours a day. And then when I think about my own life I’m on my computer a lot and, and then there’s T. V. and I’m like “woah” this is mind blowing to me. And you had alongside that that people on average check the phones a 150 times a day.
Dr Lori: Right and now that number is rising. Over 90% of what we do as humans is not conscious and I think in general, were not really conscious of how much we’re on screens and so, it’s really vital information I think, and I think helping people understand how it affects us. Let’s say for instance if I’m spending that much time on a screen will then that’s a conversation online is not the same as going to lunch with someone or having a cup of coffee with someone and looking into their eyes or or hugging or touching or all those things we can’t do right now we’re social distancing. It’s not the same, and when our environment is healthy again and we are able to be in the presence of other people then we need to carve time out each day to have in person conversations and even if we’re on a screen we’re not moving our bodies. If we sit too much in front of the screen were not out walking, we’re not out enjoying the sunshine we’re not getting your vitamin D. and so the fresh air there’s just so many ways that we’re effected and we can make small changes. When we know better we can do better.
Kate: When we know better we can do it better. Another point that I noticed in your introduction of the book you talked about how many of us do intuitively know, or most of us intuitively know that technology is harming us the way we’re using it. Why do we ignore the knowing?
Dr Lori: Because we really enjoy the simplicity that this technology brings us. It makes our lives easier but we really do need some amount of friction in our lives every day. Let’s say for instance the television. It’s really healthier for us if we get up and walk across the room and change the channel. I mean that friction is better for us than sitting on the sofa about for hours an hours scrolling through with the remote and a bag of potato chips or a cupcake. I mean you know, or drinking a coke. Those are the things we do. They feel good at the time, but they’re not really good for us. They’re not really healthy for us. So finding some ways to interrupt that ease I think it’s important.
Kate: Friction. It’s such an interesting word to me. I I like it. So you’re talking about interrupting, so interrupting just the ease of it. So are we kind of addicted? Are we secretly addicted to these devices all of us, or is there a fine line between when that word is appropriate or not?
Dr Lori: I think we are many of us are addicted and we don’t even know it. I’ll tell you there is a ton of research, that data is in, that would support that however if you’re not a person that wants to read through the research or believe what others tell you then I say – Hey do what I did. I put my phone up one day and I decided I’m gonna see if I’m addicted, after I looked at all this research. So I put my phone away in a drawer and I ran an errand. I was gone for an hour or so and I promise you, I felt really naked without my phone. I felt vibrations, I felt lost. It was awkward. It was really awkward. It can be security for us just having that phone in our presence, but really what kind of security is that? Is that, is that a healthy security?
Kate: Hmmm, and I assume we’re not talking about the…I can remember I first got a cell phone because my dad wanted to make sure that I could call should I be in a breakdown. We’re not talking about that. I can remember a couple years ago I was working with a client and I said to her “I want you to challenge yourself to put your cell phone in your hand bag in the trunk of your car.”
Dr Lori: Oh wow that’s good.
Kate: And she was like “woah”. Like because we were talking about, and now there’s been a lot of measures put in place around the legality of it but back then it wasn’t illegal to necessarily pick up your cellphone, as it is now I live in Minnesota, to pick up your cell phone when you’re driving but she said that that really twitched her out, just that separation of it being in the trunk of the car.
Dr Lori: Absolutely. It’s security for us and they think we have to think about is that security can easily be taken away, so if we lose it, then what? Then where where does our anxiety go? Does that become full-blown panic? I mean I know I panicked when I misplaced my phone for just a short while, just absolutely hysterical, so I think we have to look and do the research on our self and to understand how we are affected. Just small changes that we make, can make a big difference. Again, I’m not saying you know, no tech, because that’s not realistic in this world, the world we’re in. It’s not realistic.
Kate: I’m fascinated by how we cope and coping styles and and what we do to, to take care of ourselves. Do you find that many people use it to sort of numb out? To numb out from the difficult emotions of life, and to kind of just kind of fall below thinking almost?
Dr Lori: Absolutely. You know that’s what addiction is. Escapism, and numbing out and so we all have a substance that we numb out with. Mine is chocolate which is not good for you either. Um but you know in in balance its okay, but yeah I mean we pick up our phone we start scrolling through mindlessly but the problem is, it can take us places that set our moods. I mean have you ever picked up your phone first thing in the morning and you’re like – I was in a good mood until I read all this news or saw all these comments, or this negativity and now the rest of my day is not feeling so happy because of the way it began. And so I always say to people, hey put it away from the first two hours of the day. Do some positive things in your day. All of that does affect us, and garbage in garbage out. So I think we have to be so mindful of of what we allow into our brains. I was just listening to some positive talks on on on different podcasts this morning as I was getting ready. I listen to one every day when I’m dressing you know that’s a great positive way to use it. Yeah I think we just have to be mindful of what we’re letting in.
Kate: I think that’s such an important point and we’re in the midst of the corona virus the first couple of weeks of us being mainly in our homes across the states people when we were recording this, and I have had a number of people reach out to me already and say how much my podcast, Here to Thrive, which you were listening to now people, but how much it has been that that little drop of positive energy in their days because there is a lot of scary, ah fearful energy around on social media right now.
Dr Lori: Having a podcast like this to help lift our spirits it literally changes the chemistry in our brains. It can raise our immune system and help us be more positive, and able to fight off, the negativity so it helps pick us up rather than pushing us down further, so I highly recommend using technology in in positive ways like listening to Here to Thrive.
Kate: Yeah and it comes back to that mindfulness, that of the intent right, rather than as you said at the start the unconsciously getting sucked in.
Dr Lori: Right where we stare we steer. And so if we are doing things like listening to positive podcasts we’re going to move towards positivity and that the world needs right now.
Kate: Shifting a little bit, tech and personal connection. We touched on this a little bit at the start of the podcast marriages. Connection with other people. How do you see technology interfering with this? And then, the second part of my question would be, and what can you do about it when we can only control ourselves?
Dr Lori: Right that’s a great question? Well I think that we can have boundaries. Boundaries are our best friends in all of life. You know, we must have boundaries, to allow it to help others understand what we will allow and what we won’t. Boundaries are not a bad thing. Saying no to others unhealthy or unkind behavior is is not a bad thing. It actually is keeping or not enabling them to behave in that manner which might help them become healthier. So I think if we understand, let’s say in a marriage relationship. I mean there are some things in our marriages that we usually talk about before we get married and we say like “I’m okay with this. I’m not okay with that.” These are these are the standards for our marriage, and now the world is changing, and so we do have to constantly kind of change some of our thought processes and boundaries around our relationships and certainly, I know that my husband is like “I would prefer that when we’re in the car together that you’re not on the phone. I like for you just to talk to me and interact with me, if you don’t mind it if that’s okay.” Well as his partner I want to do things that are not offensive to him, and I’m certainly I could put up and down for thirty minutes while we’re in the car together, or fifteen or whatever, or I might say “Hey I know we’re going to dinner tonight and if you’re really would be engaged with me, and not watching the scores for the football game, that that helps me feel like a priority for you, and you know we only have dinner together one night a week so if I could just be, for those several hours your priority that would really make me feel good about the relationship.” So these boundaries that we can set, we’re not telling them, I don’t ever tell them what he can or can’t do or he doesn’t me, but we just share how it makes us feel. Like I might say I need you to listen to me right now without any technology. Can we step away from our technology for a minute? There something really important and I need to talk about. Well nine times out of ten he’s gonna wanna help me with that, and he’s going to say – sure. Yeah, you know, we’re partners. We’re a team. We’re a couple bubble. So let’s do for each other what I know you need and what you’re sharing with me. Now if he intentionally is not going to do that, then that’s some information for me right there. So yeah, boundaries. I think having boundaries around technology, and and everybody’s boundaries are different. Some couples I work with say – I get in bed at night and my wife is on her Kindle, and that bothers me. I just wanna snuggle or I just wanna talk to her about her day before going to bed. We usually say, well let’s share that with her and see her thoughts around it, and she’s like, “well thank you for sharing that. I had no idea that you cared.” You know. “I was just doing that. I didn’t realize. I can do that another time during the day. I can look on my iPad and read the news a different time beside the bedtime.” So most people are pretty good with understanding that. And then of course if they’re not, that’s a great conversation to go a little deeper and wonder why.
Kate: So I’m hearing it’s about communicating our needs, and like you said and if they don’t respond then that’s information for us too.
Dr Lori: Yeah. It’s about being connected and engaged because the opposite of that is about is a deterrent for relationships. Disconnection and disengagement. So if my spouse wants to be on their phone when they’re with me, then I need to understand, and I’m not saying when they’re with me up there with me all day, but you know like if we set aside designated couple time and they want to include their phone. Like who would’ve ever thought that the third person which is not a person, but the third distraction in a marriage would be a phone like the other person is actually a phone, you know what I’m saying?
Kate: Yeah, you’re competing against a phone, not another human.
Dr Lori: Right right. How how can I compete against that?
Kate: Technology in parenthood. Ugh, where to start with this one. I said to you just as we were getting on the call I have two boys, they’re aged six and eight currently. We’re in the middle of the corona virus pandemic and I’ve seen so many memes going around already saying – let’s all ignore our screen time limits and I absolutely get it, right, we’re in survival mode at the moment, and as a parent who works from home, I will admit that I was incredibly tempted to just hand my kids the iPads for six weeks and tell them to enjoy… but with our two boys my husband and I have noticed that there is a huge change and behavior when they have too much screen time and so we have decided that during this period, and we don’t know how long this period is going to be with corona virus, to stick to our weekend only family rule.
Dr Lori: Right.
Kate: I know you’re have a bunch of children as well. What are you seeing in your own family around technology and behavior, and how did you navigate this with your children?
Dr Lori: Well our children are all grown at this point so I did not have as much of a challenge as you will have, but I do still have the challenge because you know when we were together for family time now we’re together for holidays and whatnot. Not as much as we used to because our kids are all grown out with their own careers or whatnot, and their own families, but when we do get together family time or have dinner I’m like – Hey put your device away because this is gonna be just us and, we have a rule, when we go out to dinner as a family, whoever pulls their phone out has to buy dinner and that really …
Kate: [Laughing]. Whose paying for dinner tonight?!
Dr Lori: Yeah, yeah, and I think we’re pretty big group so that works out really well. Yeah I understand that things are a little different with the corona virus and I I don’t want anyone to isolate right now I’m saying yet online, connect, do face time with loved ones, check in on on your loved ones and elderly people and you know we need to be doing that right now. Right desperate times call for desperate measures. However still we do not need to be constantly online. We still need to be moving our bodies, we can find projects around the house. On my Instagram I’ve been posting every day projects. I had spring cleaning list that I probably would have never gotten through otherwise but now I’m cleaning out the attic, washing windows and doing things that will pull me away from technology somewhat. I’m moving my body. I’m doing things that are constructive. I’m still setting goals during the day and reaching them and feeling good about them at night to keep my mood up.
But going back to your kids, we model for our kids as they grow older in yours are getting to the age where they’re gonna start watching you. You know, and you can talk to them and they hear you but they’re really more interested in what you’re doing, and so we model for our children the behavior that we want them to have, and so that’s really important for us to remember. My kids will say to me mom, you’re on your phone. When I was writing a book Connected & Engaged, I even talked about in the book my my son and his girlfriend walked through the living room one day and he said – “look at my mom. She talks about tech distractions and she’s been on her computer for two hours straight writing.”
You know it’s, they watch. They noticed everything, so we have to we have to be mindful when we’re with them to give them our complete attention. I can so tell when I’m working with families which kids have boundaries, you know, which parents have set boundaries for their kids around tech. They look at me in the eye and they’re able to converse with me. It makes a big difference and I think if we want our kids to be well rounded then we need to help them be well rounded. So we need to help them learn about social conversations and in person conversations and not just everything on technology.
Kate: That really hit me, the we are modeling for them. So if we have boundaries around technology with them, but yet we have our cell phones at the dinner table and a not socially engaging with them, we’re sending contradictory messages.
Dr Lori: And that is so true. I always I want to say to parents when I go out the young families and the parents immediately call out their iPads you know, when they’re out at dinner I see them at the table and they have friends with them, and they all hand their kids their iPads. I’m thinking, no no no, this is a great opportunity for your kids to learn how to socialize out in public places. Learn how to have self-control and to actually interact to be connected with other kids. And, so that later when those kids are much much older the parents are bringing them into my office saying my child’s not really making friends in person, or my child has a hard time focusing. We know that too much tech for kids while their brains are developing can interrupt their focus and you know how we have to think about those sorts of things.
Kate: It comes back to the idea of boundaries and intention again and I’ve found that technology and giving my kids the iPad, if I’m being honest with myself, it’s always the easy route but I know I’m going to pay for it in the long term and I think this to me is about choosing the hard thing in the moment which is going to be the good thing in the long term.
Dr Lori: Yes. And that if you think about it, that’s really the case in much of life taking the easy way out in general does not always work out well.
Kate: It rarely works out well. I’ve had to learn this lesson the hard way people. It rarely works out well to take the easy route. My nature is to try and go the easy route and I fight against it all the time. [laughing].
Dr Lori: Right. Right.
Kate: The other part that I really heard as we are facing this coronavirus crisis was you said – when we are without children really be with them – and like I said I know a lot of parents are working from home and trying to balance that, and as a working from home parent I’m seeing you know, all of the people that can do, “oh you know I have all this space”, and I’m like “yeah that’s nice for you.” Ah my my I’ve now got my kids at home full time and somehow trying to do my work as well, but what I’m hearing is that boundaries can work really well for us here, where either you know working but when we were with our children we’re with our children, we’re not trying to be with our children while working at the same time – do you think that is a strategy that could help us here?
Dr Lori: I think that is wonderful. That’s a wonderful strategy for kids to learn, Hey mom and dad after work right now for a couple of hours ,which means I have to do this over here and I have to learn to respect boundaries with them, and to be able to have some self-control during that time, that’s a good thing for kids to learn. That’s a whole other book for me one day. You know when we triy to make her kids happy every minute and entertain them every minute that, is really not preparing our kids for real life. Real life is that we are quarantined somewhat and yet we still have to work and provide for a family. That’s our real life right now. And so, kids we need you to understand that we’re gonna take a little bit of time to do our work so that we can provide the food security that we all need and then we’re gonna spend an hour or two doing something fun with you, if you’re able to get out and go for a walk, or if you’re able to play a board game or whatever your particulars, everybody’s situation right now is very different.
Kate: It’s about that quality of time and that intention around how we using out time. Talking I know you also work with organizations around how they can minimize distractions at work from tech. What problems are you seeing with technology in the workplace?
Dr Lori: You know it’s kind of interesting Kate, because I wasn’t intending to do that and as I would work with families and and and then they would ask me, “will you come speak to my school PTA group?” Or “Will you come speak to us, will you come to my office and help me with my employees” and then I started doing the research I found over ninety billion dollars a year is lost due to employees being over involved with social media online during the work day. That’s a lot of money, and people they realize that that was going on, so they’d say “Come help us with this”, and so I did start working with small businesses as well as big organizations on ways that they could use technology in a better way in the workplace.
Kate: And so what kind of things do you suggest for organizations?
Dr Lori: Well one is know that that it’s a distraction. We know that um, for every time that we’re pulled away in our focus is, lets say we’re online and we’re working you will get a notification that pulls us away, it takes twenty five minutes to get our minds really back into that project again, that we were doing. Now that’s a lot of wasted time. So helping people understand how to turn on notifications, how to email. That’s that’s huge. We do not have to be available twenty four seven. That makes this crazy thinking that we have to answer every email the minute it comes in. Every phone call the minute or every text the minute they come in. We can train people to understand our boundaries and respect our time, and we can respect our own time by saying, “okay I’m gonna check emails every morning” this is something I do with organizations “I’m gonna check emails every morning from eight to nine or eight to ten depending on your email amount, and then a little notifications gonna come on that says after that time I will not be checking email again until the afternoon at four so that I can improve my productivity and creativity. And so you train people to understand okay well oh, I’m going to send her this in the morning but I know she doesn’t answer them till night time or late in the afternoon, so people understand and if it’s a really really important they will call you.
Kate: Hmmm, that’s a really interesting point right? And, and like you said, having those notifications, I was, when you said having a notification on your email just letting people know that you won’t be checking it, I was just thinking as well we could set notifications to our calendars to pop up and say – turn it off now.
Dr Lori: Yes, it’s really interesting we can yeah we can do that. I do that and and I know Instagram has a new element that you it tells you it can tell you exactly how much time you’re spending on it during the day and you can actually limit that. There are apps you can get to cut all of that off depending on the way you program them, so that could be very helpful.
Kate: Yeah, boot yourself off Instagram. I love it time, time to go now. Lori, I ask all my ideas some pretty casual intermission questions. A life lesson that you feel took a long while for you to really learn?
Dr Lori: Oh goodness. Well do I have to do just one Kate?
Kate: [Laughing] You just, you can tell me all about all of them if you’d like.
Dr Lori: I think that really, you’re gonna find this interesting because I’m a therapist, and what do therapists do? We listen. That that has been the life lesson that has been most important for me, because as you can tell, I’m a talker. I have learned that I have to be a listener also, and listen to other people and not just be talking at them but also being able to listen. Everybody has their perspective. Everyone has their idea of something and sometimes people just want to be heard. I think we’re experiencing that in our world with with all of the division and polarization and I say well, I think they just want to be heard. Maybe if we could just not dismiss them and hear them, so probably that is a life lesson that I think it’s just essential for me personally.
Kate: Oh no and I understand. I don’t think it’s bizarre that your therapist when, when listening is, is one of your life lessons because you know, one of my specializations is stress and how to manage it and yet self-care is a huge personal struggle for me but I think it’s the fact that I am constantly having to reinforce that life lesson, it makes me better at teaching it.
Dr Lori: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know they say that that lesson that we most need to learn it doesn’t go away, until we learn it, and I think I think listening has been a lifelong struggle for me. So I’m finally learning it so maybe now it will go away.
Kate: [Laughing] Yeah I think I’ll be with ah, I think I’ll be navigating self-care for the rest of my life but that’s okay.
Dr Lori: Absolutely it’s a journey.
Kate: It’s a journey. How would you describe the soul Dr. Lori? Do you believe in one and if so, how would you describe it?
Dr Lori: Absolutely I do believe in the soul, and I think that the way I would describe the soul is that it’s our internal world. It’s everything going on for us internally, and you know its, our soul is the keeper of our internal world, and I think for me, I personally think that it drives most of my behaviors.
Kate: What does the fulfillment mean to you?
Dr Lori: Well I think for all of us it means something very different, but for me personally it it has really changed. It’s kind of interesting I think the first part of our lives fulfillment means gathering, and the second half of our lives it is about realizing that we have enough, and no matter what we have, it’s enough, and it can be enough, and I still like to have goals but my goals are not materialistic. My goals are more soul goals.
Kate: Hmmmmmmm.
Dr Lori: They’re more they’re more spiritual I think. Friends, you know experiences, not things.
Kate: I feel like it just made me think of like the life stages, was it Levinson’s life stages? And that stage, is it called generativity? I have not looked at that since about, oh I don’t know, twelve years ago, no even longer, almost 20 years ago, but that’s what I’m hearing that shift towards generativity.
Dr Lori: Oh, so true. It is almost was to the day after I turned fifty that I suddenly, I guess that is half-life for me, because I noticed a shift, I have wanted to simplify my life, I want experiences. I tell my kids don’t spend money on a Christmas gift for me, or holiday gift for me. What I would like is for you to write a poem, paint a picture, my son’s really gotten good at painting or drawing something for me and my daughter she’ll spend time with me. These are the things that I want now.
Kate: No I, I totally hear on that one. I, I absolutely get it. Shifting back to technology and kind of summing things up, what can we do, if you had a few simple ideas of how we can improve our own situations. Where could we get started if we wanted to do something about how we were relating to the technology in our lives?
Dr Lori: That’s a great great question and I’m glad to offer some ideas about that, that I’ve found that work for me and work for my clients. I think really being intentional about creating strong relational connections, the people that are closest to us. I think minimizing the stress that comes from our digital devices which however that works for you. You need to put it away. Whatever the boundary is that you can have your time with your tech I think it’s helpful. To help you engage with your world with a renewed energy and a renewed confidence and more focus on real life experiences with other people I think is essential.
Kate: Dr Lori, if you will leave the listeners of Here to Thrive with just one thought today what would it be?
Dr Lori: Today I would want to borrow the title of my book which is be connected and engaged, especially now during this time connect and believe it or not I’m going to say, use your technology to connect.
Kate: (closing) You know our technology, it’s not one of those conversations I really feel that excited about having, because I feel like so many of us can do with from time to time, a little bit more consideration with how we are using technology, and whether really it might be using us. I know I absolutely consider it a maladaptive coping strategy when we use it just to go into that endless scroll. When I’m doing stress management training I often mention it, but my key takeaway from today was really about being mindful about our tech use and the intention we bring, an as like any other element of our lives the more intention we can bring to it, the healthier the relationship becomes. So I hope you took something interesting away from today. And to learn more about Dr Lori you can head to drloriwhatley.com. You can also find her book Connected and Engaged on Amazon. For that show notes from today’s episode head to: thrive.how/podcast137.
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